Thursday, September 08, 2005


Well I've done it. I've had a massage. It felt nice while I was having it, but I don't really feel too different now. (I can still feel twinges of pain in both my shins.) I'm not sure what I was expecting, but no miracle has occurred.

After getting back to running yesterday, I am definitely taking today off. I hope to run 4 miles tomorrow and have a better idea of where I stand.

In the meantime I've gotten some depressing, but probably realistic feedback to a question I posed on Cool Running. Since most people here have been more supportive, I wonder what you think of that. (I feel like he's probably right, but I'm not ready to accept it yet.)

Tomorrow I'm off to Cleveland to visit my brother. His father-in-law is an orthopedic surgeon, who does a lot of work in sports medicine. My brother tells me he used to be one of the team doctors for the Indians back when they sucked. (The Indians, not the doctors!) So for all the people telling me to see a sports doctor - I will tomorrow! (He says I need some sort of insert for my running shoes, but I'll talk to him more tomorrow.)

Since my brother's home is still in the dark ages (i.e. dial up internet) I'm not sure how much blogging I'll be doing over the weekend. I'll be back in NYC Sunday night.


Blogger jeanne said...

oh boy what a pair we are! but let me warn you about those message boards at coolrunning; i actually posted an entry on my blog about them because they got me so discouraged! (not to promote myself, but you can read it here: )

I'm following Galloway's program. It calls for 2 short runs per week (alternate days (at least 45 minutes) and 3 days of cross training (anything you want) and one long run. As the long runs get longer and longer ,we got two weeks to recover. so 3 weeks ago the long run was 20 miles, then two saturdays of 10 each and then this saturday, 23 miles (i'm CRYIN' over missing that!!!)

So I wouldn't swear by what those coolrunning guys say. they are hard core.

I would also say (and this is just my opinion, and yeah, i'm slightly injured so grain of salt, but I will say that i followed the plan to a t, it's really a fluke that i'm injured), that if you threw in some structured walk breaks it might really help all around. Read galloway about walk breaks but whatever you do AVOID coolrunning's boards, bcs they think it's akin to murdering someone!

and lucky you: a doctor in the family! I wish I could join you! (sorry this is so long!)

Thursday, September 08, 2005  
Blogger Brooklyn said...

Danny, I support Jeane's comment about not putting too much stock in the comments on coolrunning. The only parts I agreed with that guy about was the need for an established mile base and the need for a consistent training program. But you've heard that from me before.

The rest of what he said went contrary to my thoughts and, I daresay, might lead directly to more injury!

Listen -- first marathons are tough; everybody finds that out. Almost everybody gets injured.

1) But you have to take the long view, the wide-angle view. Keep the forest in sight, not the trees. Find ways of taking your mind off your shin pains -- get distracted. Me, I start doing math in my head, like computing my recent gas mileage and what percentage -- out to the hundredth of a percent -- more gas is costing me... see?

2) The "novice" training program starting at 30 miles base per week sounds ludicrous, pardon me! Mine, I followed an established, proven first-timers course schedule, built by two pros who teach a marathon class each year and every single person save one has finished their first marathon! HUNDREDS, by the time I bought the book, and probably THOUSANDS at this point. That schedule started me at a 15-mile base and the highest mileage in one week was 36, including the long run. The point is to FINISH, not finish FAST.

3) You've got to quit racing for now. No more racing until the marathon. Racing will lead to injury. You've got to stick to your schedule, not fit races in as "part" of the schedule - because they're not training, they're racing. Two totally different animals.

Lastly) I've noticed your attempts at addressing the injury are short-lived and one-shots: the x-ray, the massage, the self-calf-massage in the middle of your run. Any treatment that will fix your problem is going to be a long-term thing, you'll have to do it consistently for the long-haul and no, you won't feel better right away. Most of our injuries don't happen - and don't heal - overnight.

I'm glad you're going to see the sports doc; he should be able to help. If he advises prosthetics, really go for the gold on those - customs if you can afford it - don't shortchange yourself! Good luck Danny!

Friday, September 09, 2005  
Blogger JimR said...

Brooklyn, if you're talking about my post...which part do you not agree with?

Friday, September 09, 2005  
Blogger nancytoby said...

Good luck on finding a solution!

And remember, in NYC - unlike lots of more remote marathons - there's always the subway nearby if you have to bail out. But hopefully it won't come to that!

Saturday, September 10, 2005  
Blogger a.maria said...

ok. i apologize in advance if this comes off "rude" but the people on that site, especially in regards to the post jeanne is referring to, are completely @#%^ and should be taken with a grain of salt.

as far as training for your first marathon, this is what i know, because this is what i've done....

the longest i had EVER, and i mean EV-ER run before starting this whole journey was 3 miles. THREE. and that was back when i played lacrosse in high school. i had a base mileage before training of exactly ZERO MILES PER WEEK. so base mileage of X numbers for a month before you start training, first of all, is total bollocks. it CAN be done w/o base. i'm living proof. schedule, per TNT coach (who has been doing this for YEARS and in all these years has used this SAME SCHEDULE and has only ONCE had a runner not finish... ONE out of HUNDREDS) calls for two short runs and one long run. tuesday, thursday saturday. cross train if you want (which i do, MWF) but thats your call.

mileage wise, what he's saying about not running enough during the week... to quote him "Sacrificing base for long runs doesn't work. The long run is supported by what you do during the week. The stronger your week is, the easier and more beneficial the long run becomes, but this won't likely happen for a first (?) timer with minimal mileage. You have to be able to handle x number of miles a week and handle it consistently week in and week out." is total crap. (more is not always better for a new runner!!!!)

i ran 20 miles this weekend. my schedule called for 6 miles on tuesday and 3 on thursday. which is what i did. and, news flash, i ran my 20 miles. sure the last five sucked but that was my own fault for not taking walk breaks like i normally do in the beginning.

but the schedule you have, if you STOP RACING (because i did a 5K way back in the beginning of my training and my shins hurt for like 2 weeks after. racing bad /training good) and stick to the schedule, you CAN DO THIS.

in my personal opinion (yes. MY OPINION for anyone out there thats about to slam me for what i've said) cool running is not about supporting the beginning runner. seek out, as you have, advice from RBFers.. they support us newbies, they encourage us, motivate us and inspire us.
Running Chick is awesome. jeff at Boingoblog is awesome. i mean hell they all are.

but THIS
"Experienced marathoners (to generalize) are annoyed at folks who think they can short-circuit the process.... and this "If you have good insurance and don't care about your well-being, do what you want." and "you probably just need to take up space in the start area and they'll push you to the finish line."........will get you nowhere.
this will get you to quit. this comes from someone who wants to own the marathoning experience, not share it. not help others in their struggle. its total crap.

nobody can tell you what you can't do. you get to decide that. thats what training for this is about. its as much a mental game as it is a physical one, so dont let these people in. do what you need to do to recover and run healthy, but don't give up on this. there is absolutely no reason why you cant run this marathon. NONE.

Monday, September 12, 2005  
Blogger Danny said...

Thanks for the support guys. I really appreciate it.

I'm not ready to throw in the towel yet. I am definitely concerned that I ran too hard in the half marathon 2 weeks ago, but I'm hoping I can still recover from that mistake. (I think that's what is the hardest - the fact that I think that my problems are as a result of my own training mistakes.)

No more racing until the marathon. That's for sure.

Monday, September 12, 2005  
Blogger JimR said...

***mileage wise, what he's saying about not running enough during the week... to quote him "Sacrificing base for long runs doesn't work. The long run is supported by what you do during the week. The stronger your week is, the easier and more beneficial the long run becomes, but this won't likely happen for a first (?) timer with minimal mileage. You have to be able to handle x number of miles a week and handle it consistently week in and week out." is total crap. (more is not always better for a new runner!!!!)

a. maria. This is exactly why I said it's not likely to happen for a new runner with minimal mileage.

However, Danny wanted to drop some of the weekly mileage and just do long runs and it simply doesn't work that way. Hal Higdon's novice plan (which is what he referenced) is probably the minimal training you can do to get through a marathon standing up and without killing yourself. It has just enough weekly mileage to get you through. You can't drop those weekly runs, they are critical to the plan.

Keep something in mind here. You don't need to train to finish a marathon. You don't need a single scrap of it if all you want to do is finish. All you need to do is sign the waiver, pay the fee, show up and scratch and claw your way to the finish line. That's it. Finishing means nothing more than making it through all 26.2 miles...heck, anyone with mobility can do that. But setting goals (i.e. running the whole way at 10min/mile as Danny was hoping for) requires specific training.

I know you'll still disagree with that, but it's irrelevent. The more you *can* do during the week the easier that long run becomes. It's as simple as that.

Tuesday, September 13, 2005  
Blogger brent said...

i don't hang around cool running at all anymore. they are all hardcore and its pretty negative in there. some are positive sure but why does it seem like most posters want to start an argument???? i stay clear away from that site and now i'm way more happy. heh.
i feel kind of funny giving advice about training for a marathon since i've never actually run one before but i think everybody reacts to the training in a different way. i had the splints in weeks 5 and 6, and there were people that told me to hang it up for the year. other people told me to give it time though. i cut mileage in half for about 2 weeks. i'll email you some chi stuff in a bit. hang tough, don't give up quite yet. the other thing i have observed reading all these blogs for over a year (2 years maybe?) is that people that go into a marathon a little bit injured, tend to finish but they really get messed up doing it and they really suffer big on the last segment of the race. thats not to be negative but just an observation. catch you later man!

Thursday, September 15, 2005  

Post a Comment

<< Home